Yes, it is a very interesting topic, and a very important one. In this episode, I have a conversation with Jamie Allen Vaughn as we discuss her journey to hope while recovering from breast cancer. We also discuss how she used her podcast titled, "Test Those Breasts" to help reach out to help others in their journey.
You can listen to other topics by Jamie by searching on your favorite podcast outlet for the title, Test Those Breasts”.
Yes, it is a very interesting topic, and a very important one. In this episode, I have a conversation with Jamie Allen Vaughn as we discuss her journey to hope while recovering from breast cancer. We also discuss how she used her podcast titled, "Test Those Breasts" to help reach out to help others in their journey.
You can listen to other topics by Jamie by searching on your favorite podcast outlet for the title, Test Those Breasts”.
Show Notes
Our Journey to Hope
A conversation with Jamie Allen Vaughn.
I'm your host, Dr. Dave Laton, and thank you for joining me in our journey to Hope. It is my desire through this podcast, to bring you information about how to discover, sustain, or perhaps regain hope. In this episode, we'll be speaking with a new friend of mine, Jamie Allen Vaughn. You know, Jamie, I listened to several of the episodes. Your podcast and I'm going to let you talk about that in just a minute, but. The thing that struck me. I appreciate the passion that comes through when you're talking and your guests as well. And you know, we share in the cancer survivor community. I don't know if it was you in a previous comment or my daughter who said something about the cancer club is not one, we want to join, that we are members of.
Hello Jamie.
Jamie: Hello Dave. It's so good to see you. I appreciate you having me on your show. It's such a pleasure. No, we don't want to be in the club, but on the other side of cancer at this point, for me, it is one of the Silver Linings, I guess, if you will, that has come out of this journey that was just crazy. And I've met so many amazing people, not just breast cancer patients. And survivors, but also people who have had other kinds of cancers such as yourself. So I just think this is really a thrill to be on your show. So thank you.
Dave: Well, it's my honor. It truly is. I've always been aware that people would say so and so has cancer, or I've had cancer, and I understood that and had a level of empathy or whatever. I hesitated to say the word sympathy because I did not want sympathy. But I understood how they felt. But wow, I now understand how.
Jamie: And you know, I mean, for me, it's like before I had breast cancer, I thought that I was immune to it, but it was at that point, I thought it was things that happened to other people, right? And because that's all I ever knew is cancer happening to other people. And now I am on the other side of that thought process.
Dave: As we had discussed with you earlier, my daughter had lymphoma five years ago and that hit us like an explosion because there's no family history or anything in it. And then a few years later I had my leukemia.
I do appreciate that you agreed to be a guest. So, let's get started with talking about what we want to talk about. Tell the audience about yourself and your podcast.
Jamie: OK, so my name is Jamie Allen Vaughn. I am from Reno, NV, and before cancer, I was a schoolteacher. I taught middle and high school English Language Arts and Social studies and I have always had a side job, side business, very busy busy busy girl. About four years before my diagnosis, I lost my mother, who was everything. She was my best friend. Just the best mom that you could ever ask for. And that's when my life looking back in hindsight really started to change.
Leading up to my breast cancer, I had a lot of stress and trauma, let's just put it that way. I received my breast cancer diagnosis in June of 2022. It was one week after I had an enormous retirement party. My husband Darrell, who I've been married to, we've been together for about 21 years. We've been married for almost 20. He had retired the year before and we had all kinds of plans for travel and all the things. And we have this big party, and that's slightly before my retirement party. I got a little message on my phone saying, hey, it's time for your mammogram and I've been always very, very good at taking care of my breast health and any female health that I needed to take care of. I always listen to my body get a mammogram every single year. I picked up the phone to make an appointment to get my mammogram and my husband and I were sitting out front of the house in the sunshine.
They asked me if I felt anything and if anything was different and I said no, you know, they'll find out and my appointment was going to be 3 weeks later, so I thought they'd know. So, I said no, and I hung up the phone. And my husband said that's not true. You do feel a lump. You've felt interesting sensations in your breast. And I said you're right. Why did I say no? Because I'm always listening to my body and.
Just a little backstory of all that spring. Leading up to my retirement, I did feel a lot and it was different. And I did feel burning sensations and twinges, you know, and things like that and. I guess I was just so busy and that I would just be like. And so, I picked the phone back up and said, you know, that's not true. And. I normally feel lumps because women with dense breast tissue, always feel lumps in their breasts. And I've had two lumpectomies in my past in the past ten years and they were benign. And I said, but also I felt sensations, so they removed my mammogram up by three weeks. And I went on the Tuesday after my retirement party. And I had my mammogram, and I knew right away that something was wrong. Because they don't usually come back and say, hey, the radiologist wants to see you so. I also know the look on the face of the nurse who is doing the ultrasound.
So, I went in and talked to the radiologist and that's when he said that I had some groupings of calcifications that were concerning with an associated mass. So I just happened to have a really good friend who's a radiologist at our breast center here who I normally go to, who just happened to be at my retirement party a few days prior, and I called him up and I shared the results with him. And he phoned me that night and said that it is a 95% chance or more that it is breast cancer. And he was able to get my biopsy moved up to that Friday. I got my biopsy and I found out 24 hours later on June 11 at 3:30 in the afternoon when I was camping with my husband and a couple of. That it was in fact breast cancer.
And so that is the turning point of my life. And it's like, OK, I guess my retirement is not going to be the way I thought it would be. So I guess before breast cancer it was what happened to other people, and now I am a statistic, I'm going to one in eight statistic and I've gone through treatment. I don't know if you want me to keep going on my treatment and all that.
Dave: It is important that folks understand the journey you went through and you know some of the things that the challenges of the highs and lows. And that sort of thing. And of course, you now have a podcast that is a spinoff of all this experience. And we want to talk about that too. I learned as you experienced, don't hesitate. And don't brush it off or self-diagnose. If it's unusual, somebody needs to know because things happen and we're not specialist in it and so thankfully you took advantage of it. Time is so critical.
Jamie: Time was everything. It's amazing how fast sometimes it advances. And so, because less than a year before that I had a mammogram and I always get a diagnostics mammogram with an ultrasound and they didn't see anything. And so just knowing that when they found the two of them or it was 5 centimeters if that gives you an indication of how fast these things go. Mine was very aggressive and so yes, the timing was of the essence.
Dave: My annual Wellness check was not three months before and you know everything was great, but of course, they're not testing the full blood workup that they would.
How did you feel when you first got confirmation, OK this is it? What were your thoughts and what were your feelings on that and you know how did you feel about that? Talk about that a little bit.
Jamie: That's a really loaded question because I had all the feelings. I was angry. I was confused. I was devastated and I was angry that my mother wasn't there. Very fearful. And it was interesting because I'm a pretty open person. I always have been, and I'm an open book. People know my life. I have three wonderful stepchildren. I have lived with two dogs, one of them has since passed away. She took care of me all through my cancer treatment and all of that. A wonderful husband and just a really good life. I was really confused and devastated.
So, when I came out on social media that I had gotten breast cancer, some comments were really interesting to me. They said things like oh my gosh Jamie, but you were so healthy. And that really confused me because it was kind of this implication of what did you do? Yeah, yeah. What happened? Like, what did you do that, or you aren't healthy? How did you get cancer if you were so healthy? And it occurred to me that people didn't understand that apparently, I don't know, surprise, surprise, healthy, yes I was a very healthy person. I take care of myself. I eat right. I don't drink too much. In fact, I was hardly drinking at all at that point. But healthy people can get cancer too. Yes, they can. I was a health coach who was fairly healthy myself. So yes, and that's such a strong point.
So that is one of the missions that I really like to let people know. It's like, hey we all have, you know, cancer cells. It's just a matter of the circumstances that open us up to being struck with cancer and are there and we can't beat ourselves up until, gosh, what do they do? I did this to myself. What could I have done better? Because that's just like one of my friends that I interviewed on the podcast. You know, she said. We can't beat ourselves up like this is not your fault. But no. I mean, and so no, I was healthy. I am healthy. I was healthy all the way through my cancer. And you know, I ate right and all that.
And so, I went through the chemo, I got my port installed and I was a wreck. Dave, to be honest with you, I was a complete wreck. And this was about the end of June, and I had some nervous breakdowns where my surgeon, who put the port in, had to talk me off the ledge if so to speak because I was in a very, very deep, dark place. And I was scared of being in that place and I was scared that I wasn't going to be able to pull myself out. And so at some point, I reached out to a therapist, Eddie Anniver, in Australia. I found him on Facebook and I was really drawn in by his content, and his material. He's a three-time cancer survivor and he had sort of found a way to help people through this journey and you know.
And so I reached out to him that night in the middle of the night and I said, you know my name is Jamie Bond and I actually interviewed him on my podcast. So a great great great episode. And I said I'm scared. I got to tell you, I need I'm in a deep, dark place and I need to help. So he put his proverbial hand out there and dragged me out of that deep, dark hole I was in and was able to help me through and I, you know, started my chemo.
I had five of the six rounds that I was prescribed and you know, lost my hair and all the things and you know what I did? I started a private Facebook group and I told the good, the bad, the ugly. I went live. People saw me, you know, my husband shaving my head. I just put it out there and that for me was the secret sauce in helping me get through. Because it really created an amazing community of people who rallied around me. I was able to, you know, kind of, sort of, like my emotions and allow myself to feel that way and not stay in the bad emotions or and they're not bad, they're people. They're human, right? They are human emotions. And so I allowed myself to walk through all of those emotions, feel at all. And then? You know and here I am.
And so the podcast was born out of this idea and this very important idea. That early detection is where it's at. And so, test those breasts, test those breasts, test those breasts, test those breasts.
And it was interesting because I had a conversation with a male breast cancer survivor this morning from the UK and he told me that, you know, he's out there helping the breast cancer community as well. He's amazing. And he says I'm trying to make; I'm trying to pop out and make sure that the message. Who has yet to be diagnosed is happening because we're in a community of people who already know what it's like to have breast cancer and so we're telling people to feel it on the breast. We already know this, like because we've been through it, how do we reach all the other people?
I remedied that when I make a post on Instagram, I also share it to my personal pages because those are going out to all kinds of people who have never even been diagnosed.
Dave: Jamie, I want to share with you just a second. I was out looking at different podcasts and I love to see what folks are doing and get some ideas and I came across this crazy-looking podcast. Test those breasts and I go, OK, this is going to be interesting, and it was, it really was.
Jamie: Well, I'm really glad. That was sort of, the idea, to capture the eyes. of people. When I first started the podcast, my husband was actually the one who came up with the name because when it all comes down to it, early detection is where it's at.
That's the thing about, yeah, so people need to get their butts out there and test their breasts and so I thought that that was a very catchy name and then I put it out there to social media and said hey, I need a logo and one of my former colleagues. He knew I had breast cancer, and I just said the name and he came back with the owl and the little eyes are kind of, you know, like little pink, pink areolas, I guess you'd call them.
And it's interesting because the owl is my sort of spirit animal for my mom and so he obviously remembered that I loved owls, but it also symbolizes wisdom. And then of course the eyes are eyes and then they're also double as breasts. And so it's kind of appealing and capturing in that way as well, but testing those breasts because we can talk about all kinds of things.
We can talk about chemo, we can talk about surgery. And all the things. But if we can get people out there to pay attention to their health and things that we know intuitively. They're in their family. And they can take those precautions and go and testing. You know, whether it be your breasts or whatever. Early detection is where it's out there. The earlier we can find the more manageable.
And I'm never going to say that it's easy, because it is never easy. But it's more manageable and the chances of you getting through it and actually living. What is way better? So, test those breasts and that's and that is.
It came out of Dave after I had my first breast surgery. In December of 2022, almost a little over a year ago. You can get back to normal. You're, you know, you're cancer-free, everything's OK. And the truth of the matter is that it doesn't work that way and I realized very quickly that PTSD is a real thing in cancer patients, Yeah. And that didn't occur to me until just this past September, October, September, or October. Almost a year from when I was cancer-free I got my PTSD then. But in February of 2023, I started with depression, and really having a hard time with it. I don't have any purpose in this world, I don't have any significance. I used to have a lot of significance before cancer. And then even through cancer, obviously I had significance because people were caring about me and I had a lot to do. But after cancer, I was not feeling well. It threw me into a major depression. It was then that I realized I needed to do something that was going to pull me out of this depression. And that's when the podcast was born. I said I need to talk about this and I need to talk to other people about this and be part of the community at large and send, you know? Part of helping, you know. So that's where that was born.
Dave: I'm retired military and I've been in some stressful situations. And, I thought, OK, I've got this. And yeah, it was after I got out of treatment that it hit me. I had two things that hit me. One was especially on the anniversaries of something that happened. This past Sunday was the 2nd anniversary of my symptoms when my leukemia started. And I talked to my doctor about it, do that. Talk to somebody about it. He talked to me about it and I appreciated that.
So, then I started feeling, you called it depression. I'm not sure if I felt depressed. I felt guilt, Survivor guilt. Why me? Because I know people whose family members have died.
You used the expression purpose, and I began to look at it under the advice of others. The purpose is so important to you, that you found it with the podcast. I have also and in my ministry, I work with people and also volunteer, so there are lots of opportunities.
I wanted to share something that is so, so very important that I have discovered over the last year or so in researching about hope and all of that is you have to get out of yourself and you've got to start looking at others and looking to help others and you'll recover. I was able to do so, and so I advise people to understand it's a real emotion, just like the fear was, just like the depression and the disappointment. So, get out of yourself, start helping folks, and you'll turn that around.
Jamie: Say it loud for the people in the back, because so many people feel this way, and one of the reasons one of the reasons I really encourage people to get connected, get connected immediately, and because I still know people who are going through breast cancer. They went through it without getting themselves connected and it is a clear difference in the way I was able to handle it versus how they were able to handle it and or not handle it.
Dave: I did not write Journey to Hope about myself or even the podcast that I shared with it. My publisher said, look, you need to tell it so folks know you've been there. So in the introduction, I talked about it, but I talked about a lady named Jane McCarthy. She was my volunteer that really meant a lot to me.
The first day that I was in outpatient care, I could not even stand on the scales by myself I had to be in a walker. And she helped me. She said, OK, Mr. Dave, I want to take you around. Your nurse will be Brentley, who by the way, what a wonderful lady she was. But anyway, you're going to go see Brently. As we were walking down the hallway. Sometimes I get emotional when I talk about this, so I'll apologize now, but we're walking down the hallway and Jane is maybe 5 foot 6 and I'm 6 foot plus. So, she's got her arm around me and I'm limping down the hallway like an old man, you know, and I said, Jane, you're making me feel like I'm your only patient. And she said, well to me, you are. And then she said no one walks alone. That meant so much. That has become our motto, at the Cancer Center. And so anyway, that meant a lot to me. And that became part of the title of my book.
So again, I didn't mean to chase that. But what you're saying, and what I've just said, is don't be alone. You are not. You are not alone. I have a basket at my house that I will keep forever. It's packed full of cards that people sent me, Some of them from the world, people that would say we're praying for you, you know, we're with you, hang in there, and it just meant so much. You really did.
Jamie: Yeah, it really does. And I just really love the fact that you shared that because once people do get connected and that every community has something and that may not be as large as other communities, but there are communities out there who can really help you through.
And I you know. Dave, I think for some people, is that things have changed over time. The older generation, what I have really experienced with talking with other women and I, you know, I haven't spoken to a lot of men yet about breast cancer and that is one of the missions that I've got going on because I think it's, I think it's really important to understand that. More than just women and so, but what I have heard, and this is a pattern I've heard, is that the older generation, they were not open because it was more, it was just a secret, like there were so many women that I've spoken to. They really didn't even know their mom had breast cancer or their grandmother had breast cancer because it was like sort of kept under wraps. It was taboo to talk about it. And I am so thrilled that things have changed over time and people are reaching out and they are talking about it. I do think that the reason people are able to get through it, the way that they're able to get through is because of that.
So not to say that, you know, some women who kept it under wraps didn't survive, but the emotions that go along with that, that's all part. It's not just about the treatments, it's about your mental health as well, so yeah, we don't want anyone walking alone.
Yeah, while we were on break. To share this with you, I'm going to have a discussion with someone very, very special to us. She is a cancer survivor, a breast cancer survivor, and she was there as a personal friend of my daughter going through her cancer. I contacted her and said I'd love to have you as a guest and she. Then she said her husband, Paul, has agreed to be on the podcast with us. Would you like him to talk about being a caregiver? Oh yes, when I have a caregiver, when somebody's caregiver is at the Cancer Center, we love them. We help them. We let them know how critical they are to all of this.
Jamie: We were interviewed. My friend John interviewed me and my husband. Earlier on in the podcast we talked about the journey that we've gone through. The good, the bad, the ugly, and because it was not all roses and you know and so but I also interviewed 2 gentlemen who are metastatic breast cancer or not breast cancer, but I think one has started with breast cancer. Anyway, they both have totally different types of cancers, but they are caregivers and they gave me some wonderful insight into their perspectives and I thought that was really important and I love it.
I want to go back real quickly to when you mentioned that you are a veteran, and you understand what PTSD is as far as what the military comes into play, right? And so we need to make that, you know, that kind of crossover and understanding that PTSD, it's trauma. So PTSD can happen with any kind of trauma.
You know, just a real strong man who actually got a little teary-eyed on my podcast talking about this. So I love the fact that there are people out there like you who are normalizing PTSD and happening in different circumstances of trauma, but also normalizing the importance of walking into your emotions and understanding those emotions. And so thank you for really, really bringing that to life.
Dave: When I was in the hospital and you know, they were dumping bags of platelets in me because my body was basically bleeding out. I had a panic attack. Did not know. But my charge nurse came in. She pointed to the monitor. She said we know everything that's going on with you and she chased everybody out and shut down everything except life support. She and I talked for about an hour. I asked her why am I feeling fear. She said welcome to the human race. And she said you control it, you don't let it control you, and that really meant a lot. So anyway, what you're saying is very true.
Jamie: And those panic attacks are real and they feel so you feel out of control. And so that charge nurse, yeah, I'm so glad she was there for you. And that you recognize that you are actually a human being. And here's the thing, when I said when people say things like stay strong. Staying strong doesn't mean not feeling the emotions and showing your emotions. Being strong actually is just completely the opposite. And you know what I mean. We need to change the narrative and the understanding of what society thinks we should and should not be when we're going through something like this. And so that's, that's my own two cents on that.
Dave: Well, I appreciate it. Again, that's just something that now I've discovered and I understand it. So I appreciate that you're doing the podcast and others are as well. And it's not just about breast cancer. That's just one of the areas where we can talk about. One of the things though, shifting gears a little bit that I came to appreciate, I had to learn a whole new level of humility. You know, people would come to me and ask for advice or help, or I'm there. Now all of a sudden as I mentioned, people like the volunteer having to help me stand on the scales. That kind of stuff. You know, somebody was taking care of me. I came to love those people so much. The caregivers, the professional staff, yes. Those who prepared meals, the people who cleaned the room. The drill Sergeant physical therapist. But anyway, yeah, so talk about that, your experience with the people that. You don't even know who all of them are, right?
Jamie: Right. One of the things I will say, when I had my breast surgery, I had my breast surgery in New Orleans at the Center for Restorative Breast Surgery. That was a whole new level of humility. That is a no joke of a surgery. I just had my second phase three weeks ago. I had my second phase where I had nurses come in all throughout the night, check my breasts, make sure that they were doing okay, empty my drains, training my husband, how to do all of that. Taking me to the bathroom, showering me, and things like that, so having those nurses be there for you to support you and help you do those things. There are no words for how much I appreciate every single one of them, and I will never forget them.
And you know, and so then, my husband. Of course, you know, we talk about in sickness and in health, and because when I first was diagnosed, I said you didn't sign up for this and then I realized, I guess you did and so it just happened to me, me first to go through something like this and so he had to help me shower. He had to help me put my girdle on after surgeries and you know go to the bathroom for a little bit give me shots in the back of my arm and, you know, even that was really interesting, a whole new level of care from your husband and so. You know, I appreciate that so much as well. But yeah, those nurses. And the PAs and the nurses that come in in the middle of the night. I had to have transfusions for quite some time because I developed a rare anemia due to what kind of tumor I had. They found, you know, at the time they found the breast cancer, so I've been in those infusion centers getting those, getting blood transfusions and all of them, I just appreciate them so much.
Dave: You talk about coming in the middle of the night, you know the young medical technicians that would come in and she said. Mr. Dave, I've got to stick your finger again. I was having trouble with Insulin. Just part of the side effects of everything, so they had to check it. She'd come in and wake me up at 3:00 and you know all that. And I just, I'd hug her and say you do whatever you need to do. Which finger do you want today? And I always appreciate them so much. They were so compassionate and understanding. And not just for me, but for my wife as my caregiver, which, by the way, she got back at me. She had hip surgery not long ago, and I had to help her. I teased her. I said, oh, you're making me wash dishes. You're making me cook, you know?
Jamie: And it's really interesting because my husband has had two hip surgeries. He's gotten both of his hip replacements. Now I feel like, I didn't do that much you know from you know I I did things that. He did so much more for me because of my circumstances. Yeah. So I'm like, OK, next time that something like this happens to, that's to him. I know that I have my work cut out for me.
Dave: I say this because my train of thought is, that folks out there who are experiencing cancer to know that there are a lot of people who love them and absolutely want to help them, and don't be afraid and don't shut yourself in. Please don't.
Jamie: You know, one of the questions that you and I talked about was what advice would I give to, you know, would I leave with people? And that really truly is number one, test your breast. It's not just other people who get it. One in eight women get it. The statistics for men, I don't know the exact parts, but everyone needs to pay attention to their health and what they're feeling and their intuition and all of that and understand that while you are very, very, very special. You're not so special that you can't get breast cancer, so you need to test. But even more importantly to, well, I shouldn't say even more equally as importantly is if you are diagnosed, plug yourself into the community. Talk to people, talk to people, talk to people, talk to people. And so I mean, I just, I just can't, I cannot emphasize that enough. And I'm not saying go out on social media. You don't have to do what I did, but at least plug yourself into the community. And you can find so much strength and knowledge and awareness through them that it can make your journey a whole heck of a lot better.
Dave: And it will help you. Mentally as well as physically, it truly does. And you might not see something.
Jamie: Yeah, but also, you know if you get into a group too, like a support group, that you do not feel comfortable in and you're not feeling like you're getting something out of it. Something's going, you know like you don't feel right about it. It doesn't mean that it's not a good organization. It just means that it might not be the one for you. And so reaching out to other survivors who have found support, really good support, you know? It's kind of like choosing your doctor. If you have the choice to choose your doctor, you want to feel comfortable, or a therapist. I started seeing a therapist right away and luckily I just happen to really like her, and we're still we still see each other today.
Dave: By the way, I'm going to have an interview coming up later at the end of the month with Women of Hope. It is a wonderful organization that's out there to support women, especially with breast cancer. And there are just so many others. And I tell people if there's not, start one.
Jamie: Yeah. And I'd like to find a support group for men. I would like to find one specific to breast cancer for men. I'd love to talk with them. So if you ever come across something that's interesting.
Dave: Well, what else would you like to share with us, my friend?
Jamie: You know, I just, I really appreciate what you are doing with your podcast and the voices that you are allowing to be heard and I love this conversational type of format that you have. It's very comfortable and I think people like that. Thank you.
I appreciate you having me on to tell my story, and if people want to reach out to me on Instagram, I'm on Test Those Breasts. You can put it in the show notes if you'd like. I think you have it, but I'll send it to you. I also have a private Facebook group called Test Those Breasts for us. Go figure. I'm on LinkedIn under Jamie Allen Vaughn. I'm on TikTok under Tests Those Breasts, and I just started a YouTube channel and I have 35 episodes that I have released so far.
Dave: Friends, please accept my apologies for some technical glitches in this episode. Some Internet issues started and I lost some of the final thoughts from Jamie. Please go to her podcast Test Those Breasts. And her Facebook and YouTube.
OK. Well, Jamie, thank you so much for being a guest on this podcast, a very special podcast. We've had a couple of technical glitches.
Jamie: And thank you, I appreciate, you know, the fact that your vulnerability and your ability to, you know, kind of spotlight so many stories such as mine. And I just appreciate what you do and thank you for having me on.
Dave: It's not about us, it's about each other.
Jamie: And as we said, storytelling. Yeah, we are not alone.
Dave: Well friends, thank you for joining me as together we journey to hope. I truly hope that we have encouraged you to discover, sustain, or regain hope through this effort. I invite you to contact me if you have any questions or comments, or if you wish to share with me something you've experienced in your journey to hope. I've appreciated as I said, my new friend Jamie.
Well, my e-mail is our journey to hope@gmail.com. And please share this podcast with someone whose hope is being challenged. I look forward to sharing more with you soon. Again, I'm Dr. Dave Laton, and thank you for listening. And until our next episode, remember, we give all glory to God our Father.